badgolferman wrote on Mon, 22 Jul 2024 14:28:00 -0000 (UTC) :

However, I also note that AirTags are NOT an iPhone feature; so we're
still waiting for even a single iPhone feature that leapfrogged that
of Android.

AirTags are a hardware function of the iPhone feature FindMy. It is
because of FindMy that AirTags have become the standard among trackers.
As the document I provided shows, Apple's (iPhone) FindMy network is
far more robust than the Android Find My Device network for now.
Undoubtedly Google will get it sorted out at some time.

This is sort of a double-edged advantage though. Trackers are
considered anathema to those who value privacy. For iPhones to have an advantage in something which devalues privacy is somewhat ironic.

Hi badgolferman,

The discussion below contains technical and factual and logically sensible nuance that an adult should be able to easily comprehend.

I will never disagree with a logically sensible statement, where I grant
you that Apple's marketing "leapfrogged" Tile's tags by a million miles.

Let's accept that as a fact so we don't need to belabor the obvious.

Now you assert that the AirTags are an iPhone technology, much as you would then have to assert that Tiles are an Android technology - which is false.

However... even those Tiles aren't Android tech any more than AirTags are iPhone tech, it doesn't matter to my fundamental observation that Apple is
five to ten years behind Android technology (due to lack of R&D spending).

Since you're an intelligent adult, you must understand my point that if
AirTags are Apple iPhone technology then Tiles are Android phone technology
- but now comes the nuance that adults are supposed to be able to
comprehend.

Let's say you're right:
a. Let's say that AirTags are Apple iPhone technology
b. And let's say that Tiles are Android phone technology

Even if we stretch the "facts" to that (absurd by the way) level,
that still means that out of every Apple poster on this newsgroup,
you are the only one who found even a *single* iPhone technology that Apple leapfrogged Android phones on.

One item in ten years?

If we grant you Tiles/Airtags as Android/iPhone technology (which is
absurd, but I'm willing to grant it as it makes no difference to the main point...)...

Even if we accept AirTags a priori, that means in the past ten years, Apple
has "leapfrogged" Android in only a single technology (instead of zero).

Do you understand that this still makes my point for me?

Unless people can find more than one technology that Apple has leapfrogged Android technology in they past ten years, then my statement will be true:

*Due to lack of R&D spending, iPhones are 5 to 10 years behind Android*

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badgolferman wrote on Mon, 22 Jul 2024 16:39:02 -0000 (UTC) :

*Due to lack of R&D spending, iPhones are 5 to 10 years behind Android*

Notwithstanding the actual hardware, my point was the FindMy network and technology behind its use is what Apple has done better than Android. Since
I really don't know much else about Android that was the one thing I
thought of when you issued your challenge.

I'm glad you brought up AirTags as an example of an Apple success.
I will never deny a sensible statement: I agree AirTags are hugely
successful (as far as I'm aware - as I haven't checked sales figures).

But I do believe, a priori, that AirTags are clearly an Apple success.

Since we're adults, we make assessments based on facts.
Only a fool denies facts (that's why they're fools).

It's clear, a priori, you and I consider AirTags a marketing success.

We can debate if AirTags are a leapfrog or not - as this is the timeline:
1. Apple launched its UWB AirTag in April of 2021
2. Samsung launched its UWB tracker at the same time
3. Tile launched its UWB tracker in 2022
4. Google still has NOT launched a UWB tracker (AFAICT)
<https://www.tomsguide.com/phones/google-pixel-phones/androids-find-my-device-trackers-could-steal-this-killer-airtag-feature>

So clearly, Apple is far ahead of Google's UWB tracking.
Since Google doesn't even have a UWB tracker.

That's pretty far ahead that Apple is on UWB tracking, right?
(At least if we forget Samsung and Tile UWB trackers.)

Let's accept this, a priori, as clearly an Apple success.
Now... what else has Apple been able to innovate on for the iPhone?

Remember the point I am trying to make (which is always a twin):
a. The zealots believe Apple innovates but that belief is not based on fact
b. The zealots can't come up with a single iPhone innovation over Android

You're the only one who came up with *anything* Apple was better at.
The religious zealots couldn't even come up with the AirTag example.

As a rational adult, my argument is simply that Apple's spend on R&D is so
low (compared to other companies in terms of revenue percentage),
that it's not possible for Apple to innovate the iPhone over Android.

Apple doesn't spend enough on R&D to ever make iPhone technology better.

Other than AirTags (which I grant as an Apple marketing success) can you
name any iPhone technology that isn't 5 to 10 years behind that of Android?

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badgolferman wrote on Mon, 22 Jul 2024 17:33:47 -0000 (UTC) :

Other than AirTags (which I grant as an Apple marketing success) can
you name any iPhone technology that isn't 5 to 10 years behind that
of Android?

How about Apple Wallet/Apple Pay? Most places I go accept Apple Pay
but not Samsung or Google Pay. Why is that? It can't be due to
commissions.

Hi badgolferman,
I enjoy conversing with you as I don't have to dumb down the messaging.
You can handle the nuance of detail that none of the iKooks can fathom.

Yours is a good observation about the payment systems, as I'll never
disagree with sensible points - where Apple's system is well established.

Rest assured I'm never beholden to a foregone conclusion when factual
evidence is presented that might change a previous assessment based on
prior facts - as I'm only beholden to making a good factual assessment.

Again though, you're choosing things which are marketing gimmicks that I
don't fall prey to so I don't know much about phone payment systems (as
mine are all disabled on my phone - which enables me to get free stuff).

However, if we listen to what Steve Scharf has said in the past, as he's an expert at phone payment systems, I think he'd agree with your premise.

I would say though, that the two things you found which Apple clearly has a better following than Android does, is due more to marketing than to R&D.

Also, neither one of them is devoid on Android - so it's simply a case of
which you happen to feel has better market penetration - which - well - is important for sure - but which isn't necessarily a technology lacking on Android.

If we begin to list stuff we just happen to like better on one platform or
the other, we might as well compare Siri to Google Assistant. Or Apple Maps
to Google Maps. Or Apple's App Store to Google's App Store. Or Apple's
CarPlay to Android Auto. Or we could even dive deeper into the weeds
comparing NewsTap to GroundHog newsreaders, so we need to be careful to not just compare stuff we like better but which is on both platforms.

However, even though R&D isn't involved all that much in both the UWB
trackers and the payment systems, that it's not very R&D intensive doesn't negate that those two things are "more successful" in terms of Apple's
market penetration, than Android's market penetration.
1. Apple UWB trackers
2. Apple Wallet/Pay systems

Thinking about the problem set, I wonder if we can list a third item, one
which is actually completely lacking in the Android system to date?
3. Emergency Satellite messages

When I looked up the status of Android satellite messaging, this was
published just today which says it's coming, but it's not here yet.
<https://www.techradar.com/phones/android-fans-might-soon-get-one-of-the-iphones-best-safety-features>
"Based on code seen by Android Authority, Google is considering
bringing emergency satellite communications to a future version
of Android. Dubbed Pixel Satellite SOS in code found in Android 15
beta 4, the feature could help get Android fans who find themselves
in difficulties when making conventional emergency calls isn't possible."

When I dug further to see how much Apple spent on their system, I found
<https://www.techradar.com/features/i-tried-apple-emergency-sos-via-satellite-even-though-i-didnt-need-to>
"Perhaps only Apple could invest nearly half a billion dollars
in an iPhone 14-based system most will never use. It's something
that makes its now-available Emergency SOS via Satellite system
on all iPhone 14 handsets that much more impressive."

Both Apple and Google are only planning on offering the service for free
for two years though, so it won't be useful until people pay for it.
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaymcgregor/2024/07/22/google-pixel-9-satellite-sos-feature-subscription-offer/>
<https://www.androidauthority.com/pixel-satellite-sos-free-apk-teardown-3462798/>

I'm sure we can find more, but I find it interesting that the ignorant uneducated low-IQ zealots couldn't come up with the stuff you & I did.

1. Apple UWB trackers (Android has them also)
2. Apple Wallet/Pay systems (Android has them also)
3. Apple Emergency Satellite messaging (not yet available on Android)

Another thing we can say that Apple has which is far better than Android is
the Genius Bar free support - which some of my relatives use quite a lot.

As with the emergency satellite communication systems, this is something
that is essentially completely lacking on Android - at least at local
stores (although I've gotten support from T-Mobile for my Samsung).

1. Apple UWB trackers (Android has them also)
2. Apple Wallet/Pay systems (Android has them also)
3. Apple Emergency Satellite messaging (not yet available on Android)
4. In-person store one-on-one free customer support

Of all of these, so far, I think only the latter two are unique to Apple,
and, the Satellite messaging will be on Android soon - but clearly I hand
it to Apple for spending half a billion dollars to get to market first.

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