• Burning pixels

    From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to All on Sun Sep 1 09:55:00 2024
    I've been cooped up in the house recently (working from home,
    bronchitis, and an ear infection - didn't want to go into my office with
    a hacking cough). My wife and daughter were off on a pedicure and hair
    salon day, so I went out to, as I'd say in the past, "burn some film",
    shooting street scenes.

    Instead, I planned on burning pixels. Had to choose between my retro
    high-end digicam (Nikon Coolpix 995) a newish mid-level pocketable
    (Pentax MX-1) or a point and shoot Canon. Decided to bring the Pentax
    and my phone, a Moto G Stylus with a decent camera. I picked up a
    clip-on circular polarizer for it, I shot at a museum with plexiglass
    covering everything and wanted to remove the reflections.

    I don't know if I'm lacking inspiration, just tired, out of practice or
    seen it all before in my 'hood, but I ended up spending the afternoon
    taking one picture of an alleyway I've shot before - and I took it with
    my phone. It came out of the phone nicely, did a little tweaking with a
    photo app on the phone, and it's good *enough*.

    I picked up a Pixel 8a a few weeks ago, wanted something newer with
    supposedly one of the better cameras in the Android 'verse. I compared
    the two and, while shooting with gcam on both devices couldn't see $400
    worth of difference between the two. As much as I thought I wanted a
    smaller phone, I missed the larger screen of my moto. I returned it
    after a week.

    I miss having a camera as a separate device (and miss having a
    viewfinder) but I may give up on carrying a camera for a while and see
    what develops. Pun intended.



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  • From Ed Vance@21:1/175 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Sep 1 16:34:31 2024

    I've been cooped up in the house recently (working from home,
    bronchitis, and an ear infection - didn't want to go into my office with
    a hacking cough). My wife and daughter were off on a pedicure and hair
    salon day, so I went out to, as I'd say in the past, "burn some film", shooting street scenes.

    Instead, I planned on burning pixels. Had to choose between my retro
    high-end digicam (Nikon Coolpix 995) a newish mid-level pocketable
    (Pentax MX-1) or a point and shoot Canon. Decided to bring the Pentax
    and my phone, a Moto G Stylus with a decent camera. I picked up a
    clip-on circular polarizer for it, I shot at a museum with plexiglass covering everything and wanted to remove the reflections.

    I don't know if I'm lacking inspiration, just tired, out of practice or
    seen it all before in my 'hood, but I ended up spending the afternoon
    taking one picture of an alleyway I've shot before - and I took it with
    my phone. It came out of the phone nicely, did a little tweaking with a
    photo app on the phone, and it's good *enough*.

    I picked up a Pixel 8a a few weeks ago, wanted something newer with supposedly one of the better cameras in the Android 'verse. I compared
    the two and, while shooting with gcam on both devices couldn't see $400
    worth of difference between the two. As much as I thought I wanted a
    smaller phone, I missed the larger screen of my moto. I returned it
    after a week.

    I miss having a camera as a separate device (and miss having a
    viewfinder) but I may give up on carrying a camera for a while and see
    what develops. Pun intended.

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    Ed
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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Sep 6 07:24:16 2024
    Re: Burning pixels
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Sun Sep 01 2024 09:55 am

    I picked up a Pixel 8a a few weeks ago, wanted something newer with supposedly one of the better cameras in the Android 'verse. I compared
    the two and, while shooting with gcam on both devices couldn't see $400 worth of difference between the two. As much as I thought I wanted a
    smaller phone, I missed the larger screen of my moto. I returned it
    after a week.

    I might be a laser-focused kind of guy, but IMO the reason for picking a Pixel is because you can run GrapheneOS on it... If I was a camera hardcore and wanted a good camera I would just pick a good camera myself.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Arelor on Fri Sep 6 07:11:00 2024
    Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I might be a laser-focused kind of guy, but IMO the reason for picking
    a Pixel is because you can run GrapheneOS on it... If I was a camera hardcore and wanted a good camera I would just pick a good camera
    myself.

    I ran rooted LineageOS for a time and loved it. I'm a photographer and
    have a ton of cameras, but recently the in-phone tweaking has resulted
    in better pictures coming out of a phone than a slightly older camera.

    I do miss having a viewfinder, though. I like being able to close off
    the scene and focus on composition.



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  • From zharvek@21:2/132 to All on Fri Sep 6 11:27:51 2024
    On 9/6/24 3:24 AM, Arelor wrote:

    I might be a laser-focused kind of guy, but IMO the reason for picking a Pixel is because you can run GrapheneOS on
    Yup. Best thing you can do if you own a Pixel is load GrapheneOS. If you
    have another android device, see if you can load a AOSP clean image
    without any bloat or google-ware.

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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to zharvek on Sun Sep 8 18:19:19 2024
    Re: Re: Burning pixels
    By: zharvek to All on Fri Sep 06 2024 11:27 am

    Yup. Best thing you can do if you own a Pixel is load GrapheneOS. If you have another android device, see if you can load a AOSP clean image
    without any bloat or google-ware.

    The issue I find with alternative ROMS is they rarely support budget smartphones right, which is what I used to run most of the time and what a lot of people uses. I used to say you are always going to be frustrated with your smartphone, so buy a cheapo and feel frustrated without breaking bank.

    I find GrapheneOS to be the only mobile Operating System that isn't frustrating, but it is not something you can slap on some random old piece of junk you have around in order to try it. Running it is a deliberate choice that requires you to purchase specific hardware. I understand the reasons, but it is still a bummer.




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  • From Tiny@21:1/700 to Arelor on Mon Sep 9 06:22:00 2024
    Hi Arelor,
    In a message to Zharvek you wrote:

    what a lot of people uses. I used to say you are always going to be frustrated with your smartphone, so buy a cheapo and feel frustrated without breaking bank.

    A-Men. These phones are just a pain and a crutch anyway, I would
    love to go back to a world where they were not needed.

    I normally use a 2020 iPhoneSE. Works fine, runs all the apps etc.
    But there is a bug in the way the hotspot works on iOs that makes me
    frustrated when I'm in the woods and want to connect my laptop to the
    world. I solved the issue by buying a $70 andriod 11 flip phone.
    (Cat S22 Flip). This thing is great for running as a hotspot. But using
    it for anything else is an excersize in frustration. I LOVE IT! Forces me
    to "disconnect" as much as I want to.

    piece of junk you have around in order to try it. Running it is a deliberate choice that requires you to purchase specific hardware. I understand the reasons, but it is still a bummer.

    That is a choice. I looked up the price of a new pixel, wooooo they
    make Apple look cheap. ;)

    Shawn


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Arelor on Mon Sep 9 09:04:00 2024
    Arelor wrote to zharvek <=-

    The issue I find with alternative ROMS is they rarely support budget smartphones right, which is what I used to run most of the time and
    what a lot of people uses. I used to say you are always going to be frustrated with your smartphone, so buy a cheapo and feel frustrated without breaking bank.

    LineageOS had good support - they built ROMs for my Samsung SIII for
    *years* after the vendors stopped supporting it. The only reason they
    stopped was that their build Samsung broke, and they asked for a
    donation to continue. I don't know if they ever received one, I'd moved
    on by that point.

    It depends on what they have to build on - unless you have a Pixel.




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  • From MeaTLoTioN@21:1/158.1 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Sep 9 19:34:51 2024

    On 09/09/2024 01:04 poindexter FORTRAN said...

    LineageOS had good support - they built ROMs for my Samsung SIII for *years* after the vendors stopped supporting it. The only reason they stopped was that their build Samsung broke, and they asked for a donation to continue. I don't know if they ever received one, I'd moved on by that point.

    I use LineageOS on my OnePlus 6T and love it, they're still supporting it which is great, I don't know how long for now tho. I've had LineageOS on it since it was two years old, much prefer it over the stock rom.


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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Tiny on Mon Sep 9 13:57:56 2024
    Re: Re: Burning pixels
    By: Tiny to Arelor on Mon Sep 09 2024 06:22 am

    That is a choice. I looked up the price of a new pixel, wooooo they
    make Apple look cheap. ;)

    Yeah, the prices for new flagship phones are retarded. I don't think such tags are justifiable for general users at all.

    The Pixel I have wasn't a last generation model when I bought it, so it wasn't crazily priced. If you buy a flagship phone from a generation ago you may get an ok deal, specially because with a custom ROM you may get quite a long lifespan out of it. There is no way on Earth I am getting a flagship phone of a current generation.


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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Sep 9 14:02:11 2024
    Re: Re: Burning pixels
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Mon Sep 09 2024 09:04 am

    LineageOS had good support - they built ROMs for my Samsung SIII for
    *years* after the vendors stopped supporting it. The only reason they
    stopped was that their build Samsung broke, and they asked for a
    donation to continue. I don't know if they ever received one, I'd moved
    on by that point.


    I used a Galaxy S2 so much past its expiration date with LineageOS. It was serviceable, but not that great. My experience, though, is that ROMs are developed and tested for models the developers have, and developers usually have either high-end systems or general popular systems. If you have a generic LG entry smartphone then you will have to do the porting, most likely.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Arelor on Tue Sep 10 07:02:00 2024
    Arelor wrote to Tiny <=-

    Yeah, the prices for new flagship phones are retarded. I don't think
    such tags are justifiable for general users at all.

    While not a flagship phone, I bought a Pixel 8a earlier this summer. I
    wasn't overly impressed with the camera, and while it was faster than
    the Moto, It wasn't worth the extra price to me.

    My Moto was $120 from the provider, and a little over half the price of
    the Pixel if memory serves.

    What I *would* like is the broad support for third-party OSes and 7 years
    of Android updates that you get with Pixel phones.



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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Sep 11 04:11:28 2024
    Re: Re: Burning pixels
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Tue Sep 10 2024 07:02 am

    While not a flagship phone, I bought a Pixel 8a earlier this summer. I wasn't overly impressed with the camera, and while it was faster than
    the Moto, It wasn't worth the extra price to me.

    I certainly feel smartphone cameras are not worth the premium prices people is paying. In fact I am amused because so much smartphone marketing is focused on camera quality. You would think they are selling a professional camera to you instead of a smartphone.

    This gets a bit ridiculous because most people does not need a pro camera and could not take advantage of one if they had it. What so many consumers are doing is purchasing a phone because of the camera marketing and then using that camera to take bad pictures of their cupcake and uploading them to social media.

    Dunno, if somebody is going to do that he may as well get the cheaper Motorola, because a bad picture of your cupcake is as useful as a good picture of your cupcake.


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  • From Tiny@21:1/700 to Arelor on Wed Sep 11 05:34:32 2024
    Hi Arelor,
    In a message to Poindexter Fortran you wrote:

    Dunno, if somebody is going to do that he may as well get the cheaper Motorola, because a bad picture of your cupcake is as useful as a good picture of your cupcake.

    Andrea has a Motorola and she loves it, big screen, long battery life,
    camera is more then "fine" for the pics she takes. My iPhone was never
    top of the line and I haven't bought top o' the line since PalmOS devices.

    Shawn


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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Arelor on Wed Sep 11 09:50:13 2024
    Re: Re: Burning pixels
    By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Sep 11 2024 04:11 am

    I certainly feel smartphone cameras are not worth the premium prices people are paying. In fact I am amused because so much smartphone marketing is focused on camera quality. You would think they are selling a professional camera to you instead of a smartphone.

    I've had the same thought, and have said basically the same thing, and there are usually people who argue that a phone these days is more than just a phone, and that people actually use the 'phone' feature a lot less than they used to.

    Nightfox
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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Wed Sep 11 15:08:33 2024
    Re: Re: Burning pixels
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Wed Sep 11 2024 09:50 am

    I've had the same thought, and have said basically the same thing, and there are usually people who argue that a phone these days is more than just a phone, and that people actually use the 'phone' feature a lot less than they used to.

    Sure, but normies who don't use the phone as a phone mainly use it as portable social media instead.

    Today I went back from office in an intercity bus. People was glued to their smartphones. I looked around at what people was doing with them and it was all stuff such as watching cat videos...

    ...or texting...

    ...or listening to music...

    ...or browsing NIST for vulnerabilities that might apply to an IT product (yeah, that is me)...

    A single person took a picture at the beautiful sunset, actually.

    None of these activities requires a 700 bucks phone, unless you want an awesome sunset picture you are willing to pay hundreds of dollar for. I used to do all that kind of stuff with a 100 bucks entry phone online reviews pissed on.

    I think the only person I know in person who had an actual reason to buy a brutal flagship phone (out of business cases) is a friend of mine who is a sports addict. He bought that particular phone because of the screen quality, because when he isn't working or videogaming he is always watching sports online. At home he uses his TV set but outside he uses his smartphone. He gets such as mileage out of it that his ussage hours/price ratio is ridiculous. Plus he is rolling in money anyway so I don't blame him for overspending on a single thing.


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  • From Ed Vance@21:1/175 to Nightfox on Thu Sep 12 12:50:23 2024

    Re: Re: Burning pixels
    By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Sep 11 2024 04:11 am

    I've had the same thought, and have said basically the same thing, and there are usually people who argue that a phone these days is more than just a phone, and that people actually use the 'phone' feature a lot less than they used to.

    Nightfox
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    I tell my wife that my desktop computer is my all purpose machine.

    But since I lost the DSL connection for it and got this cellphone it has become my all purpose machine.

    I haven't taken a picture with it yet.

    The only social media I do is logging on this BBS and reading echo posts.
    Ed
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Ed Vance on Thu Sep 12 17:00:46 2024
    Re: Re: Burning pixels
    By: Ed Vance to Nightfox on Thu Sep 12 2024 12:50 pm

    I tell my wife that my desktop computer is my all purpose machine.

    But since I lost the DSL connection for it and got this cellphone it has become my all purpose machine.

    I haven't taken a picture with it yet.

    The only social media I do is logging on this BBS and reading echo posts.

    I use my phone for checking social media sometimes & other things that's convenient to use a phone for (sometimes also taking photos), but I think there are some tasks that still are best done on a computer (at least, something with a bigger monitor and a physical keyboard and mouse). Such things include editing things such as documents, photos, and videos, software development (and programming), and I think desktop PC gaming as well. And generally, anything that requires a lot of typing. I also find it a lot easier to use a BBS with a physical keyboard, mainly due to the hotkeys and typing (also, not needing to take up screen space for a virtual keyboard).

    Nightfox
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  • From Tiny@21:1/700 to Ed Vance on Fri Sep 13 05:39:34 2024
    Hi Ed,
    In a message to Nightfox you wrote:

    I tell my wife that my desktop computer is my all purpose machine.
    But since I lost the DSL connection for it and got this cellphone it
    has become my all purpose machine.

    If you want to use the desktop for BBS stuff, just tether it to your cellphone. The feature on the phone you want is "Hotspot" turn it on, set a password
    tell your desktop pc to connect to the wifi network you created on the phone and you're online.

    That's how I connect when I'm here in the woods.

    I haven't taken a picture with it yet.

    I average 4 pics a year. Could do without a camera on it to be honest.

    Shawn


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  • From Ed Vance@21:1/175 to Tiny on Fri Sep 13 15:03:57 2024

    Hi Ed,
    In a message to Nightfox you wrote:

    If you want to use the desktop for BBS stuff, just tether it to your cellphone. The feature on the phone you want is "Hotspot" turn it on, set a password
    tell your desktop pc to connect to the wifi network you created on the phone and you're online.

    That's how I connect when I'm here in the woods.

    I average 4 pics a year. Could do without a camera on it to be honest.

    Shawn

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    Since I got this cellphone in January 2024 I have been wanting to use it as a hotspot for my home system.

    I'm not wanting to use Wi-Fi because I 'think' Bluetooth would be more Secure after Pairing the phone with my stuff

    My big idea is to use a Bluetooth dongle that has a cat-5 Ethernet socket and connect it to the Router WAN output port, thinking I could either of my computers to use the cellphones data connection.

    I am very picky and so far my searches recently always shows Bluetooth devices for USB and with Wi-Fi also added.
    I want what I want but can't find it in my recent search results on Duckduckgo. Back in January I saw a device that had a cat-5 jack on one end and a short antenna on the other end but I forgot to write down who made it.
    Haven't seen that thing in the results of any searches done recently.

    At least I am a patient man, and only want to pay money once.
    Back in the 1990's I thought if I bought a Scanner I would be able to scan magazine pages showing program code and then use a CAT program to enter that code into my (then) 486 computer so I wouldn't have to type the code by hand.
    I got a HP 14" Scanner I paid a few bucks less than $1000 and never was able to convert the text to code I could run.

    Some years later a friend had a All-In-One Printer/Scanner that only cost a third or fourth of what I paid.
    I was using a Ink Jet printer then and when it couldn't be repaired I replaced it with an AIO.
    I used both Scanners to Save Photos and scan other things but never figured out how to do a CAT on what I scanned to make it something the computer could understand.
    Ed
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  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Ed Vance on Fri Sep 13 18:47:00 2024
    Hello Ed Vance!

    ** On Friday 13.09.24 - 15:03, Ed Vance wrote to Tiny:

    Since I got this cellphone in January 2024 I have been wanting to use it as a hotspot for my home system.

    I'm not wanting to use Wi-Fi because I 'think' Bluetooth would be more Secure after Pairing the phone with my stuff

    My big idea is to use a Bluetooth dongle that has a cat-5 Ethernet socket and connect it to the Router WAN output port, thinking I could either of my computers to use the cellphones data connection.

    You're still not ahead on this? I think the concensus was that
    the BT approach will not work especially if you want to make it
    work with your XP DT. And the reasons for that were made
    pretty clear - that is, lack of drivers.

    Your best bet is simply use the wifi that your phone and laptop
    can already support.


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  • From Tiny@21:1/700 to Ed Vance on Sat Sep 14 06:48:40 2024
    Hi Ed,
    On <Sat, 13 Sep 24>, you wrote me:

    I'm not wanting to use Wi-Fi because I 'think' Bluetooth would be
    more Secure after Pairing the phone with my stuff

    Why? Wifi is pretty secure with the encrytion etc. Besides Ed when
    did you store information worth trillians of dollars on your home PC?

    Any FBI vans out front your house waiting for you to connect to fidonet?

    Please just use wifi, it is secure.

    I used both Scanners to Save Photos and scan other things but never figured out how to do a CAT on what I scanned to make it something
    the computer could understand.

    I had it workign once, but I don't believe I ever got it into "text", however my
    memory is so bad I may have. LOL

    Shawn


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  • From Ed Vance@21:1/175 to Ogg on Sat Sep 14 10:33:24 2024
    What's bothering me about Wi-Fi is that I never read anything about how to get Firefox and Thunderbird to send their Output to USB instead of to a Router to get to the Internet .

    Only one of my computers could be used at a time unless there is a way that a USB Hub could have both of my pc's connect to the USB Wi-Fi dongle.

    As far as .my knowledge of this stuff goes I rate myself a bit above Kindergarten Level.
    That's why I'm here in a BBS echo, I know lots of BBS Users Know what a computer is capable of because of the experiences they have had over the years trying things and seeing if they work out as expected.
    Ed
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  • From Ed Vance@21:1/175 to Tiny on Sat Sep 14 10:39:00 2024

    Hi Ed,
    On <Sat, 13 Sep 24>, you wrote me:

    Why? Wifi is pretty secure with the encrytion etc. Besides Ed when
    did you store information worth trillians of dollars on your home PC?

    Any FBI vans out front your house waiting for you to connect to fidonet?

    Please just use wifi, it is secure.

    I had it workign once, but I don't believe I ever got it into "text", however my
    memory is so bad I may have. LOL

    Shawn

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    The FBI could lurk in my area because I have a Amateur Radio License.
    What I am MORE afraid of is a vehicle that has a large Transformer in it driving by and erasing whats on the HDD's in my computers and the Backup HDD's here.
    Ed
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  • From Tiny@21:1/700 to Ed Vance on Sun Sep 15 05:57:58 2024
    Hi Ed,
    On <Sun, 14 Sep 24>, you wrote me:

    The FBI could lurk in my area because I have a Amateur Radio License.

    So they spy on everyone with a radio license? Or just you because you're special?

    What I am MORE afraid of is a vehicle that has a large Transformer in
    it driving by and erasing whats on the HDD's in my computers and the Backup HDD's here.

    I suppose if you have all that information the FBI wants they would want
    to earase it.

    Shawn
    P.S. Please seek profesional mental health help.


    * SeM. 2.26 * Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (21:1/700)
  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to ED VANCE on Sun Sep 15 09:47:00 2024
    What's bothering me about Wi-Fi is that I never read anything about how to get >Firefox and Thunderbird to send their Output to USB instead of to a Router to >get to the Internet .

    I think that Windows would recognize where the internet connection is
    coming from and route the traffic to the dongle, where Firefox and Tbird
    would be none-the-wiser and use what Windows tells them to.

    Only one of my computers could be used at a time unless there is a way that a >USB Hub could have both of my pc's connect to the USB Wi-Fi dongle.

    Although I don't know exactly how you have the hub set up to share between multiple PCs, I suspect that each PC would need their own USB wi-fi dongle.

    Mike


    * SLMR 2.1a * Float on a river, forever and ever, Emily...Emily...
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    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)
  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to ED VANCE on Sun Sep 15 09:49:00 2024
    What I am MORE afraid of is a vehicle that has a large Transformer in it >driving by and erasing whats on the HDD's in my computers and the Backup HDD's >here.

    Through the wi-fi? I would guess if they ever tried that, the magnetic
    force would be great enough to erase the HDDs regardless of how the PC is connected to the Internet. :D


    * SLMR 2.1a * Here is a loud announcement... Silence in the studio!!
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)
  • From Ed Vance@21:1/175 to Tiny on Sun Sep 15 20:32:26 2024

    Hi Ed,
    On <Sun, 14 Sep 24>, you wrote me:

    So they spy on everyone with a radio license? Or just you because you're special?

    I suppose if you have all that information the FBI wants they would want
    to earase it.

    Shawn
    P.S. Please seek profesional mental health help.

    * SeM. 2.26 * Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (21:1/700)

    Re Your PS:
    :
    If I did that One More Practitioner would be Committed.
    Ed
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)
  • From Ed Vance@21:1/175 to Dumas Walker on Sun Sep 15 20:34:13 2024


    I think that Windows would recognize where the internet connection is
    coming from and route the traffic to the dongle, where Firefox and Tbird would be none-the-wiser and use what Windows tells them to.

    Although I don't know exactly how you have the hub set up to share between multiple PCs, I suspect that each PC would need their own USB wi-fi dongle.

    Mike

    * SLMR 2.1a * Float on a river, forever and ever, Emily...Emily...


    Thanks Mike .
    Ed
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)
  • From Ed Vance@21:1/175 to Dumas Walker on Sun Sep 15 20:46:26 2024


    Through the wi-fi? I would guess if they ever tried that, the magnetic
    force would be great enough to erase the HDDs regardless of how the PC is connected to the Internet. :D
    By
    * SLMR 2.1a * Here is a loud announcement... Silence in the studio!!


    I have been using an Adapter Tripp-Lite makes that has USB to the computer I'm backing up and it has a SATA connection that fits a HDD.
    It is a Model: U238-000-1
    Ed
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to Ed Vance on Tue Sep 17 01:57:02 2024
    On 14 Sep 2024 at 10:33a, Ed Vance pondered and said...

    What's bothering me about Wi-Fi is that I never read anything about how
    to get Firefox and Thunderbird to send their Output to USB instead of to
    a Router to get to the Internet .

    Only one of my computers could be used at a time unless there is a way that a USB Hub could have both of my pc's connect to the USB Wi-Fi
    dongle.

    Oh dear. I'm afraid that this is just not how things work.

    The short of it is that the Internet is conceptually modeled
    as layers; applications like Firefox and Thunderbird "speak"
    application-level protocols (like HTTP) over transport- and
    session-layer protocols (like TCP and SSL/TLS, respectively).
    Transport layer protocols like TCP are _usually_ implemented
    in the operating system, though there's no physical law of
    the universe that requires that. Anyway, TCP then layers on
    top of IP, which in turn layers on top of a link-layer
    protocol like Ethernet, which layers on top of a physical
    layer protocol like 1000Base-T over twisted pair, or 802.11
    "WiFi" over an RF link. And that's not counting how any
    of the devices that implement physical and link-layer protocols
    actually connect to the computer; common modern standards
    include PCIe (for high speed devices) and USB (for fast, but
    perhaps not _as_ fast, devices).

    All of this is to say that the layers between a program like
    Firefox and the decision between which link-layer interface
    to communicate the traffic it sends and receives on, are designed
    for mutual isolation: Firefox doesn't know, or care, what
    interface the OS choses to data it sends on; it just seems a
    virtual stream abstraction. Similarly, the OS doesn't care
    which stream traffic transiting a USB Ethernet interface, WiFi,
    Bluetooth, or whatever is associated with; that's all handled
    at a higher layer (first IP and then TCP or UDP or whatever).

    If you have multiple computers connected to an internal IP
    network, they will all have to have unique IP addresses and
    routes in order to communicate with the Internet at large.
    Although it wasn't initially designed this way, if you are
    using IPv4 (which you almost certainly are) for most consumer
    situations this means you need some sort of router at the edge
    of your home network that will do Network Address Translation,
    allowing multiple _internal_ devices to share a single _external_
    address (more properly, this is usually done with Port
    Network Address Translation, or PNAT). Fortunately, most
    commercially available consumer routers have this built in and
    do it automatically.

    Hope that helps a little bit.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Ed Vance@21:1/175 to tenser on Mon Sep 16 12:11:45 2024

    On 14 Sep 2024 at 10:33a, Ed Vance pondered and said...

    Oh dear. I'm afraid that this is just not how things work.

    The short of it is that the Internet is conceptually modeled
    as layers; applications like Firefox and Thunderbird "speak" application-level protocols (like HTTP) over transport- and
    session-layer protocols (like TCP and SSL/TLS, respectively).
    Transport layer protocols like TCP are _usually_ implemented
    in the operating system, though there's no physical law of
    the universe that requires that. Anyway, TCP then layers on
    top of IP, which in turn layers on top of a link-layer
    protocol like Ethernet, which layers on top of a physical
    layer protocol like 1000Base-T over twisted pair, or 802.11
    "WiFi" over an RF link. And that's not counting how any
    of the devices that implement physical and link-layer protocols
    actually connect to the computer; common modern standards
    include PCIe (for high speed devices) and USB (for fast, but
    perhaps not _as_ fast, devices).

    All of this is to say that the layers between a program like
    Firefox and the decision between which link-layer interface
    to communicate the traffic it sends and receives on, are designed
    for mutual isolation: Firefox doesn't know, or care, what
    interface the OS choses to data it sends on; it just seems a
    virtual stream abstraction. Similarly, the OS doesn't care
    which stream traffic transiting a USB Ethernet interface, WiFi,
    Bluetooth, or whatever is associated with; that's all handled
    at a higher layer (first IP and then TCP or UDP or whatever).

    If you have multiple computers connected to an internal IP
    network, they will all have to have unique IP addresses and
    routes in order to communicate with the Internet at large.
    Although it wasn't initially designed this way, if you are
    using IPv4 (which you almost certainly are) for most consumer
    situations this means you need some sort of router at the edge
    of your home network that will do Network Address Translation,
    allowing multiple _internal_ devices to share a single _external_
    address (more properly, this is usually done with Port
    Network Address Translation, or PNAT). Fortunately, most
    commercially available consumer routers have this built in and
    do it automatically.

    Hope that helps a little bit.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)


    WHEW!
    Thanks, I knew bits of those things but You wrote things in details that I never got around to learning.
    Thanks Again.
    Ed
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (21:1/175)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Nightfox on Tue Sep 17 01:50:29 2024
    I've had the same thought, and have said basically the same thing, and there are usually people who argue that a phone these days is more than just a phone, and that people actually use the 'phone' feature a lot
    less than they used to.

    I have had times where I struggled with how to make a phone call on my phone, because I never used the phone app, thus had forgotten how one would actually make a call.

    Because why would I make a call?

    As it was, I remember back when I first got a smart phone, and how I still had a strong preference to use a PDA, but those... just weren't a thing,
    anymore.

    But I've never liked talking over the phone, and barely remember doing so as a child, at this point.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to Ed Vance on Wed Sep 18 02:33:20 2024
    On 16 Sep 2024 at 12:11p, Ed Vance pondered and said...

    WHEW!
    Thanks, I knew bits of those things but You wrote things in details that
    I never got around to learning.
    Thanks Again.

    Glad you found it helpful!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Adept on Tue Sep 17 09:54:37 2024
    Re: Re: Burning pixels
    By: Adept to Nightfox on Tue Sep 17 2024 01:50 am

    Because why would I make a call?

    But I've never liked talking over the phone, and barely remember doing so as a child, at this point.

    Sometimes you have to.. Sometimes, things like making a doctor appointment, contacting customer service to resolve an issue, etc. require calling and talking to someone.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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