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Here are some I collected in alt.usage.english (in UTF-8):
(142)[Tom] An Oxford comma hops, skips, and jumps into a bar.Tom's comma is probably also a yankee's comma. ;-) No
comma in Oxford in the list before "and".
(142)[Tom] An Oxford comma hops, skips, and jumps into a bar.
Tom's comma is probably also a yankee's comma. ;-) No comma in
Oxford in the list before "and".
No, it is a genuine Oxford comma in mint condition, and I use it in
both English and Russian. All the items of an enumeration shall be separated by commas lest the reader mistake the last two items for
one combined.
(142)[Tom] An Oxford comma hops, skips, and jumps into a bar.
Tom's comma is probably also a yankee's comma. ;-) No comma in
Oxford in the list before "and".
No, it is a genuine Oxford comma in mint condition, and I use it in
both English and Russian. All the items of an enumeration shall be separated by commas lest the reader mistake the last two items for
one combined.
What do they say in England? They say that in a list "and" is a substitute for a comma.
Read for instance https://www.sussex.ac.uk/informatics/punctuation/comma/listing
and find commas before "and".
and find commas before "and".
American English punctuation varies slightly from that in the
UK -- ??that's not news to us.
And you're not expecting American IT folks say "informatics",
are you? :-)
American English punctuation varies slightly from that in theYes, but I was slightly confused when read about "Oxford comma".
UK -- ??that's not news to us.
And you're not expecting American IT folks say "informatics",
are you? :-)
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Hi Alexander,
Mon 13 May 2024 at 12:17, you wrote to me:
American English punctuation varies slightly from that in theYes, but I was slightly confused when read about "Oxford comma".
UK -- ??that's not news to us.
And you're not expecting American IT folks say "informatics",
are you? :-)
What's funny is that it is also called "Harvard comma", so yes, it
could be a yankee's comma too if you like.
In a nutshell,
======
Usage of the serial comma varies among writers and editors and also
varies among the regional varieties of English. British English
allows both the inclusion and omission of this comma, whereas in
American English the comma is common and even considered mandatory
by several style guides, with the APA style, The Chicago Manual of
Style, Garner's Modern American Usage, Strunk and White's The
Elements of Style, and the U.S. Government Printing Office Style
Manual either recommending or requiring it. (../wiki/Serial_comma)
======
... Look for the ridiculous in everything and you'll find it --- A
Damned Hobbyist 1.1.5-b20180707
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[Tom] An Oxford comma hops, skips, and jumps into a bar.
Tom's comma is probably also a yankee's comma. ;-) No
comma in Oxford in the list before "and".
No, it is a genuine Oxford comma in mint condition, and I
use it in both English and Russian. All the items of an
enumeration shall be separated by commas lest the reader
mistake the last two items for one combined.
I use the Oxford comma for the same reason. I'm
interested to hear that one can also employ it in
Russian.... :-
p.s.:
How are you Dallas? -- or
How are you, Dallas?
Comma or none?
p.s.:
How are you Dallas? -- or
How are you, Dallas?
Comma or none?
Oh yes, the comma is needed, imo. Otherwise the first example could
be read as: How! Are you Dallas?
:-)
p.s.:
How are you Dallas? -- or
How are you, Dallas?
Comma or none?
Oh yes, the comma is needed, imo. Otherwise the first exampleFrom a grammatical standpoint I presume what he needs to know is that
could be read as: How! Are you Dallas?
:-)
in English the comma is used with the vocative... e.g.
My initial reaction was that he had not expected to hear from you
too.... :-))
There happened to be an "accidental" message from Dallas with
nothing but a full-quoted earlier message from me, and I chose to
respond, because -- why not?
There happened to be an "accidental" message from Dallas withI don't recall the details, but I suspect my finger slipped and I
nothing but a full-quoted earlier message from me, and I chose to
respond, because -- why not?
posted without realizing I'd no content! Sorry about that!
Nothing to be sorry about! It's just electronic massaging. :-)
[Tom] An Oxford comma hops, skips, and jumps into a bar.
Tom's comma is probably also a yankee's comma. ;-) No
comma in Oxford in the list before "and".
No, it is a genuine Oxford comma in mint condition, and I
use it in both English and Russian. All the items of an
enumeration shall be separated by commas lest the reader
mistake the last two items for one combined.
Nicely put. I use the Oxford comma for the same reason.
I'm interested to hear that one can also employ it in
Russian.... :-)
Sounds like a good idea!
p.s.:
How are you Dallas? -- or
How are you, Dallas?
Comma or none?
The comma before "and" is just an unnecessary thing that
provides anything to make the understanding more clear.
With the same success you canput "and" before every
comma in the list. ;-)
The comma before "and" is just an unnecessary thing that provides
nothing to make the understanding more clear.
Above I wrote /why/ the Oxford comma is necessary for the clariy, unambiguity, and regularity of the enumeration. You, on the other
hand, do not disclose your arguments...
With the same success you canput "and" before every comma in the
list. ;-)
Don't you think it will make the list structure ugly and redundant?
I think that the main, core purpose to put a comma is
highlighting a pause in speech. That is the comma was
born. I.e. in general it is like a pause sign in musical
score. We can easily imagine situation when people don't
know how to write at all, but they can express
themselves in a fine way.
In the list a comma serves as a separator and "and" does
the same role.
The comma before "and" is just an unnecessary thing that
provides anything to make the understanding more clear.
With the same success you can put "and" before every
comma in the list. ;-)
Hi, Alexander! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:
It's a matter of style, not an absolute requirement, and some people recommend using it only when it's needed to avoid confusion:
Through the window I saw John, a basketball player and a friend of
mine.
What is this friend's name, and is he a basketball player? I have no idea.
I found the example in Wikipedia... I didn't personally invent it.
I asked for coffee with a breakfast of pancakes, bacon & eggs, hot buttered toast and hash brown potatoes.
At 5WPM I can type an added comma without having to fret about whether someone from ElseWhere will think I buttered the hash browns *after* they were cooked. For me it's easier to use the Oxford comma routinely in such a list than to go into detail about why buttering such things on the plate may not work.
If Denis asks I'll do the latter, but other folks may not care.
:-Q
BTW, here's a joke Dallas found shortly before your message arrived:
I like cooking my family and my pets.
-- commas save lives
I suppose you could in many cases. But as Anton says, in English it is generally considered desirable to avoid unnecessary verbiage.... [chuckle].
--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)
The comma before "and" is just an unnecessary thing that providesIt's a matter of style, not an absolute requirement, and some
anything to make the understanding more clear.
people recommend using it only when it's needed to avoid confusion:
Through the window I saw John, a basketball player and a friend of
mine.
What is this friend's name, and is he a basketball player? I have
no idea. I found the example in Wikipedia... I didn't personally
invent it.
I asked for coffee with a breakfast of pancakes, bacon & eggs, hot buttered toast and hash brown potatoes.
At 5WPM I can type an added comma without having to fret about
whether someone from ElseWhere will think I buttered the hash
browns *after* they were cooked. For me it's easier to use the
Oxford comma routinely in such a list than to go into detail about
why buttering such things on the plate may not work.
If Denis asks I'll do the latter, but other folks may not care. :-Q
BTW, here's a joke Dallas found shortly before your message
arrived:
I like cooking my family and my pets. -- commas save lives
With the same success you can put "and" before every comma in the
list. ;-)
I suppose you could in many cases. But as Anton says, in English it
is generally considered desirable to avoid unnecessary verbiage.... [chuckle].
It's a matter of style, not an absolute requirement, and some
people recommend using it only when it's needed to avoid
confusion: Through the window I saw John, a basketball player and
a friend of mine. What is this friend's name, and is he a
basketball player? I have no idea. I found the example in
Wikipedia... I didn't personally invent it. I asked for coffee
with a breakfast of pancakes, bacon & eggs, hot buttered toast and
hash brown potatoes. At 5WPM I can type an added comma without
having to fret about whether someone from ElseWhere will think I
buttered the hash browns *after* they were cooked. For me it's
easier to use the Oxford comma routinely in such a list than to go
into detail about why buttering such things on the plate may not
work. If Denis asks I'll do the latter, but other folks may not
care.: - Q BTW, here's a joke Dallas found shortly before your
message arrived: I like cooking my family and my pets. -- commas
save lives I suppose you could in many cases. But as Anton says,
in English it is generally considered desirable to avoid
unnecessary verbiage.... [chuckle].
When I read Dallas's joke I thought about the phrase: "Love your
kids but belt them in the car."
Hmmm, should I had put a period after the ending quote mark?
When I read Dallas's joke I thought about the phrase:
"Love your kids but belt them in the car."
Hmmm, should I had put a period after the ending quote mark?
Hi, Ed! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:
Oh... now there's a wonderful example of how confusing some apparently short, simple words in English may be. Just for starters, are we being told we ought to beat up on our kids or just ensure their seat belts are fastened? :-Q
AFAIK your punctuation there is correct in American & Canadian English because you were apparently quoting an entire sentence. Although I may tend to do things a bit differently at times, I am a Canadian with ex-Brit roots. :-))
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The comma before "and" is just an unnecessary thing that
provides anything to make the understanding more clear.
It's a matter of style, not an absolute requirement, and someAre there three of them? ;-)
people recommend using it only when it's needed to avoid
confusion:
Through the window I saw John, a basketball player and a friend
of mine.
If we have a good list (of names, for instance) we would have:
Through the window I saw John, Peter and Paul, who staggered out from
the pub.
The comma before "and" is just an unnecessary thing that
provides anything to make the understanding more clear.
It's a matter of style, not an absolute requirement, and some
people recommend using it only when it's needed to avoid
confusion: Through the window I saw John, a basketball player and
a friend of mine.
Are there three of them? ;-)
Now that I'm reading it I indeed see 3 different persons.
If we have a good list (of names, for instance) we would have:
Through the window I saw John, Peter and Paul, who staggered out
from the pub.
Does "who" indicate all of them, or just Paul?
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Ardith Hinton:
I use the Oxford comma for the same reason. I'm
interested to hear that one can also employ it in
Russian.... :-
And who shall stop me, even if I be the first & last person
on Earth to use the Oxford commad in Russian?
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I was standing in line at a Church Supper, and telling a story to someone. Another person came up to me and asked if I was a member of the Wit family.
I said, No.
He said he thought my Name was either Half or Nit.
It's a matter of style, not an absolute requirement, and
some people recommend using it only when it's needed to
avoid confusion:
Through the window I saw John, a basketball player and a
friend of mine.
Are there three of them? ;-)Now that I'm reading it I indeed see 3 different persons.
If we have a good list (of names, for instance) we would have:
Through the window I saw John, Peter and Paul, who staggered out
from the pub.
Does "who" indicate all of them, or just Paul?
... End of message, Alexander. Confused? Me too! :-)
If we have a good list (of names, for instance) we would have:
Through the window I saw John, Peter and Paul, who staggered out
from the pub.
Does "who" indicate all of them, or just Paul?
Beats me. I'd suggest asking Alexander, as you did... [chuckle].